The Bookmarked Interview... with Lesley McEvoy

Lesley McEvoy is a crime author and the creator of the Dr Jo McCready series of books. McCready is a forensic profiler and is, to date, the central protagonist of five novels, the first of which is The Murder Mile, published in 2019, and the most recent being The Corpse Light, published earlier this year.

A former behavioural analyst/profiler and psychotherapist herself, Lesley wrote and presented extensively around the world for over 25 years, specialising in behavioural profiling and training, and her experiences in that field helped inform the character of Jo McCready.

In 2017 Lesley left the world of psychotherapy to concentrate on her writing and in December of 2019 signed to Rogers, Coleridge and White literary agency in London, where she is represented by Jon Wood.

Below, Lesley talks to me about the creation of Jo McCready, bringing Jack the Ripper back for her debut novel, why Yorkshire is so important to her and to her stories, and why being a psychopath isn't alway a bad thing.

Before becoming a full-time author, you were a Behavioural Analyst and Psychotherapist; was the idea to fictionalise your experiences always there?

I’ve been writing since childhood – so obviously it wasn’t in my mind back then! Once I knew I was going to write crime fiction (when I was in my 30s), I did experiment with different protagonists, like police officers, but I couldn’t write authentically about that career.

It was only when my career took me into prisons and the charity sector where I worked with people who had committed crimes, that I thought about making my protagonist a forensic profiler (or investigative behavioural analyst). So, to that degree, the fictional situations I create come from my experiences.

Had you written before beginning The Murder Mile, and was there any trepidation about beginning the book?

I’ve always written. It was a hobby and then a passion. All my life, I wrote in the background, and I always dreamed of becoming a published author. I submitted my first serious manuscript in 1980! I have a drawer stuffed with old manuscripts.

"I’ve always written. It was a hobby and then a passion."

The Murder Mile was the book I started to write once I decided to create a protagonist I felt I could write with authenticity – a forensic profiler. I picked it up and put it down over seven years as I juggled writing with running a busy corporate consultancy, as well as a private therapy practice. There wasn’t a definitive moment when I sat down to write ‘the’ book. It kind of evolved over time, so I can’t say there was trepidation.

Above: Lesley McEvoy's series of books featuring forensic psychologist Dr Jo McCready.

Where did the character of Dr Jo McCready spring from, and how much – if at all - is she a reflection of you?

They say write what you know. I didn’t know what it was like to be a cop or a lawyer or a journalist. So, once I decided to create my protagonist, I knew she would be involved in the field of psychology. For me, the books have to be realistic. These days, unless you have a connection or an ‘in’ with the police, it really wouldn’t be realistic for an armchair detective to get involved in a crime in any meaningful way.

"I say that Jo McCready is my younger, slimmer, smarter avatar."

So, for a psychologist to be involved and have the help and resources of the police, she would have to be a forensic psychologist (which I’m not, by the way). That’s how that particular line of thinking went.

Does she reflect me? I’d be lying if I said we were totally unrelated. I say that Jo McCready is my younger, slimmer, smarter avatar. I’m a behavioural analyst – not a forensic psychologist. The difference is I don’t have a degree in criminology. So, in that way, we differ. But I write in the first person. I see the world through Jo McCready’s eyes, and her words come from me so, in that way, I suppose we have to have similarities.

A successful author can inhabit other people’s thoughts while a successful psychotherapist is also able to get inside people’s heads; do you think your job was a benefit in that way?

Absolutely. It gave my central character a unique perspective, one that people are constantly fascinated by. I try to give the reader an insight into what behavioural analysis (or profiling) is all about. How it works. What a profiler looks for and notices that others may not. How the science of it relates to a crime. All of that came from my experiences in the field.

How important is Yorkshire as not just a location but as almost a character in your books?

Yorkshire is very much at the heart of all the Jo McCready novels. It’s where I’m from and it’s made me the person I am. I’m really proud of my Yorkshire roots and when I started writing The Murder Mile, I still lived there, so it was natural that I’d write about it.

"Yorkshire is very much at the heart of all the Jo McCready novels."

Yorkshire, for me, is another character. It gives the books their grounding and a texture and uniqueness that, if I'd set the books anywhere else, they wouldn’t have.

Above: Yorkshire is at the heart of the Jo McCready novels, almost a character in the series.

The killer in The Murder Mile, uses Jack the Ripper as their inspiration; it’s a brilliant hook, but why do you think that Jack the Ripper still has such a hold over people more than 130 years later?

Jack the Ripper holds a particular fascination because he’s become almost mythical in the annals of true crime. The most macabre murders, happening against the backdrop of a foggy Victorian London, is Gothic horror brought to life. His name alone is enough to secure a place in the popular imagination.

Appearing in a letter purportedly to have been sent to the newspaper by the killer, the soubriquet ‘Jack the Ripper’ lived long after other murderers of the period were long forgotten. His crimes were also some of the first to be followed in real time by the press. Largely due to the fact that, to this day, no one knows for sure whodunnit. He’s the one that got away, and people love to speculate about his identity. Never a year goes by without a new theory that claims to have ‘definitive proof’ of who he was.

"I thought about who would be [McCready's] arch nemesis? Which serial killer would be so infamous that he would stretch her to her limits? Who better than the original Jack the Ripper?"

The 1888 Ripper is often set as an exercise for behavioural analysts/profilers – using today’s modern methods – to look at the evidence from 1888 and apply those methods to try to identify him. How would we approach that series of crimes today? When I created Jo McCready, she was at the top of her game; a celebrity herself, appearing on true crime talk shows and interviewed by the media whenever an unsolved murder happened.

So, I thought about who would be her arch nemesis? Which serial killer would be so infamous that he would stretch her to her limits? Who better than the original Jack the Ripper? All I had to do then, was come up with a way he could realistically be reincarnated to stalk the streets of Yorkshire this time.

Above: Jack the Ripper is resurrected in Lesley's debut novel, The Murder Mile, and serial killer has "become almost mythical in the annals of true crime".

Your plots are intricate and full of twists and cliffhangers; do you plan everything out before writing, or leave room for your characters to do things you hadn’t foreseen?

This is the question about being a ‘plotter’ or a ‘panster’. Some authors plot everything out in detail before they start writing, chapter by chapter, plot point by plot point. Others 'fly by the seat of their pants’, letting it unfold with no real plan, and see where it goes. I’m somewhere in the middle. Certainly NOT a detailed plotter. It would take me as long to do that as it does to write the book, so I’d never get one done a year.

"I always have to have the ending in mind before I start."

Even if I did write such a detailed outline, once I get writing, I wouldn’t stick to it as the characters often take on a life of their own and do things even I didn’t expect (often making a much richer plot than I could have initially imagined).

For me, I always have to have the ending in mind before I start. I know how it’s going to end. I visualise the final scene, the climactic conclusion. Then I think it backwards. I work it out in my mind – not on paper – then I start [writing]. Which means I hit the ‘muddle in the middle’. That’s the hard part that slows my writing down a lot. But I seem to get there, somehow.

Both you and Jo McCready, have said that you “found more psychopaths in business than in prison”; can psychopathic tendencies sometimes be a benefit?

In short – yes. ‘Psychopath’ doesn’t mean killer. It’s a personality disorder that certain people are born with. Their brains are simply not wired the same as the rest of us. The majority of psychopaths are non-offending. They have families, hold down jobs and lead perfectly ‘normal’ lives. They could be sitting next to you in a restaurant or living next door.

"‘Psychopath’ doesn’t mean killer. They could be sitting next to you in a restaurant or living next door."

It’s a cluster of traits and characteristics that manifest themselves in ways that are often valued by businesses and organisations today. They can appear very charming and fun to be around, highly confident in their own abilities. They can win people over, which can be beneficial not just to them but to the organisations they work for. Internally, though, their unique wiring means that they don’t feel empathy. They can make hard decisions and sleep at night. They don’t concern themselves with how those decisions might affect people on the receiving end. They are only concerned with how their actions and decisions affect themselves.

They can be charming and ruthless at the same time. Selfish in pursuit of their own goals. The end justifies the means. In short – no conscience. No remorse. They are also risk-takers. Fearless and unafraid of consequences. So, you can see why some organisations value those things and employ people because they exhibit those traits, usually rewarding them highly.

Above: Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman, from the 2000 film version of American Psycho. Both Jo McCready and her creator have said that there are "more psychopaths in business than in prison”.

Do you still practice as a Behavioural Analyst/Profiler and Psychotherapist and, if not, do you ever miss it?

No. I gave up the day job when The Murder Mile was published. I had dreamed of becoming a published author all my life. When it finally happened, I was thinking of retiring from my consultancy anyway, so, I took the leap.

I don’t miss it, really. It involved a lot of travelling and even the private therapy practice meant very structured and full days that left little time for writing. So, when the time came, I was happy to give it up for a more relaxed lifestyle.

When you’re writing one of your books, do you try to immerse yourself in crime fiction books, or try to avoid reading them completely?

I can’t read fiction when I’m writing. I stay away from it because I’m always worried it may inadvertently affect what I’m writing. Plus, it’s hard enough carrying my own plot around in my head, without having to think about someone else’s! I tend to read books for research on the topics in my current novel, if I read at all.

"It’s hard enough carrying my own plot around in my head, without having to think about someone else’s."

What's the first book you remember loving?

Peter Pan, by J.M Barrie. There was a Disney animated movie of it and I remember being taken to the cinema to see it with my parents. They bought me the book for my birthday in 1962 and read it to me as a bedtime story.

Having seen the film, it was magical, as I could see all the images in my head as the book was read . I still have the book, signed by my parents in 1962! It’s now on the bookshelf in my granddaughter’s room, waiting for me to read it to her.

What's your favourite movie/TV show adapted from a book?

Wuthering Heights, the 1939 movie starring Merle Oberon and Laurence Olivier. I read all the Brontë novels as a teenager. Their home was in Haworth, which was 20 minutes from where I was born and grew up. Haworth still is a very special place for me. It features in the books, as Jo McCready’s mentor and friend Geoff Perrett lives there (and I have a house there myself).

Above: The 1939 adaptation of Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights.

Of all the Brontë’s books, Wuthering Heights captures the wildness and haunting atmosphere of the Yorkshire moors amazingly well. I take inspiration from it when writing about the Dales – making the landscape an integral character and the backdrop for my books. This particular adaptation in black and white, I think is the most atmospheric, and Lawrence Olivier will always be Heathcliffe for me.

Which book do you think should be adapted for the screen that, so far, hasn't been?

Any of my books, of course! 😊 It is a dream to see them made into a series. I live in hope.

Where's your favourite place to write?

My husband built me a cabin in the garden as a dedicated writing space. It’s so quiet and peaceful and I’m undisturbed there. Unfortunately, my mind struggles to get into ‘writing mode’ if I’m anywhere else now. I’m not the kind of author who can write in airports or coffee shops. I need total silence and no distractions, so the she-shed (as I call it) is really my only writing space. (I’ve attached some photos of it for you).

Above: Lesley's dedicated writing cabin in her garden.

Describe your perfect writing set-up?

I have a slow morning, do household stuff that would otherwise be a distraction, then go out to my she-shed for about 11am. I have a large mug of Yorkshire tea at my elbow as I sit in a high-backed leather chair with my laptop on a table across my knee and that’s where I write until around 5pm.

Every hour or so, I go inside to get another mug of tea. Like Jo McCready, I can’t function without an endless supply. I have blood in my tea stream! No music on. I can’t write to music, but I know a lot of authors do. In the summer, I have the doors open and look out over the garden and the birdfeeders. The antics of the birds keep me entertained when I stop to stare outside and pretend to be thinking of my next plot twist. In winter, the cabin is heated as cosy and the weather batters the room. Perfect.

What was the last book you read, and would you recommend it?

The Last Passenger by Will Dean. Not a crime novel in the traditional sense, and a departure from my normal read, but I interviewed Will in York and was intrigued by the concept of a woman joining a cruise ship with thousands of other passengers and waking up the next morning, totally alone on the ship. Everyone, including the crew was gone. I’d recommend it if, like me, you want to stay up until 2am, frantically reading to find out where everyone had gone and how it was done?

Above: Will Dean's The Last Passenger, one of Lesley's recent reads.

Which book is next on your reading list?

The Black Widow. A true crime autobiography by Linda Calvey, who describes herself as an East End gangster who has served time in prison for murder.

You can have dinner with four other authors, living or dead, who would you choose?

Very difficult narrowing this down to just four! But the first one who came to mind was Oscar Wilde. Not only do I admire his writing, but I think he would make a very entertaining dinner guest. Then thinking about the interaction of guests at a dinner party (as every good hostess should), I think it would be fun to have Giles Brandreth along.

Giles has written a wonderful series of cosy crime novels with Oscar Wilde as the star. Giles is also an expert on Wilde and in his novels, he has him solving crimes in Victorian London, along with the help of his friends Arthur Conan Doyle and Bram Stoker. Which leads me to my final two guests. All in all, I think it would be a very witty, entertaining and certainly enlightening evening. Especially as Wilde and Doyle had a famous falling out over the question of spiritualism back in the day. What a conversation that would be!

What book do you think you should have read, but still haven't?

Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger. It’s a classic that I’m ashamed to say I’ve never managed to get to – yet. But it’s on my ever-growing TBR pile. As someone interested in criminal behaviour, I’m also intrigued to find out why it’s been cited as a motivator/influence in acts of violence and murder.

"Chapman was found with [The Catcher in the Rye] and claimed it was his motive."

John Hinckley who attempted to assassinate President Reagan was obsessed by the book and also Mark David Chapman, who assassinated John Lennon. Chapman was found with the book and claimed it was his motive.

Above: The Catcher in the Rye is on Lesley's TBR list.

Which of your own books are you most proud of?

This is a bit like deciding which is your favourite child! I’m proud of them all, but I suppose if I had to choose, it would be The Murder Mile, because it was my first and the one I carried with me the longest. It was the book that finally got me published and was instrumental in my getting signed by Ian Rankin’s agent – the amazing Jon Wood.

How do you organise your bookshelves?

First by author and then within that, by size.

If you could only read one book for the rest of your life, which would it be?

I find this almost an impossible question. Even Desert Island Discs gives you the Complete Works of Shakespeare and the Bible as a default. As an avid reader I’d be tempted to choose length over substance if it was all I could read for the rest of my life, as it would have to keep me going. The idea is appalling to be honest and I really can’t choose one.

What are you working on next, and when might we see the next instalment in the Dr Jo McCready series?

I’m currently working on book six in the Jo McCready series, The Killer Inside. The first chapter is included in the back of the latest novel The Corpse Light, as a teaser. Not sure exactly when it will be out – but watch this space.